If you look through our wedding album, half the people in their are now leading these church plants. They are all over the world, from Belton, TX to the most closed country in the world. So, I know them well enough to know that there was no dissatisfaction (positive or negative) involved at all.

Personally, I would use the word desire in many cases where you are using ambition. “My desire is to see this happen”, “my desire is to follow God’s calling on my life”, etc.

You know, I have never seen anyone become delusional about their ability to clean streets. But I have seen many people become delusional about their ability to sing, act, or lead. In other words, you never see anyone getting selfishly ambitious to be a street sweeper I have seen many people strike out to lead a church when they didn’t even Bucolically qualify to be a leader. That is one of my main concerns with some of the younger leaders I know – they like to ignore some of the minor epistles altogether. In some ways, that is my concern with the church today: have we created a culture where following a self-described “calling” or “gifting” is higher than submitting to Biblical standards for leadership? When I have questioned a friends ability to lead, I don’t ever get scripture as a counter point – I get this mythical thing called a “gifting” or a “word from the Lord”. Which is kind of dangerous if you think about it – “no one can question it, because it is from God!” When we become our own standard from proving our calling or gifting (we are the only ones that can prove that God has spoken anything to us), we are skating on thin ice. Sadly, I have run in to this attitude more often than not in the Church in general (outside of the AMI movement – they don’t allow this): “who are you to question what God has called me to/gifted me to do?” I wish I could say I was just theorizing with that quote. Once again, there are scriptures being ignored there, I know.

If there is a word that fits my definition of “ambition” more appropriately, with less confusion, then I am happy to use it. I just don’t know of one. It would make my point more clear. I didn’t want to get into hair-splitting over “ambition.” I wanted to make the point that wanting to expand ones impact with the gifts that God has given is a honorable pursuit. Not to get into “Christian-inspiration”-candy, but it is very Prayer of Jabez, in a good way.

For instance, let’s say a person were a street cleaner and felt that they were highly gifted in cleaning streets, that when they did that they were honoring God and felt that they were worshiping God in the exact way that he made them to be. If that person felt that their work was the exact crossroads of their passion and their gifting, we would see that as honorable. Further, if that person said, “My dream is to clean the street perfectly, for the glory of God, then we probably would say that person had an honorable and godly dream.

But let’s say there is another person who felt the exact same way, but about a different gifting and passion. Let’s say that person was an actor, and that person’s dream was to be able to be in big Hollywood movies, so that their acting would be seen as worship. I know that would bring the person an ability to witness on a big “stage”, but we have to leave that aspect out of it.

Some Christians would balk at that thought, and would have questions about that second persons motives, saying “Fame is not a godly ambition.” Part of it is from a distrust of the idea of the concept of Hollywood, but some of it might be that many Christians question the idea of exceptionalism at all. In my case, I have no real desire to be famous. I do have a desire to make a massive impact on the world for Christ. I don’t care if people don’t remember my name. I do have a passion to leave the world different. I also feel that God made me with an ability to communicate. It is something that I try to constantly hone and exercise (hence this blog). C.S. Lewis compared his writing to giving birth to something that was growing inside of him. He once said “I am right now very much with book.” When I am teaching/preaching and I use an analogy that works well, or I say something in a way that feels just right, I feel that I have created something special, something that will live past me, maybe. To semi-quote Eric Liddel, “When I am preaching, I feel His pleasure.”

I have never felt that I am the best that ever was, or that I am unsatisfied with being just normal. There is an old country song that says, “Living that domestic life, happy children and a pretty wife. Cocker Spaniel’s always having puppies. How could anybody be so lucky.” That was my dream as a kid. As of late, I’ve felt a growing passion inside of me to stretch my gift/passion. My prayer is that God will give me opportunity, humility, and inspiration. I hope I never get Olsteen sized power. I wouldn’t want what that would invariably do to me. I do want to do the one thing that makes me feel most alive, and leave the world radically different. I don’t think that is wrong. I am still working this all out inside of me. Please pray for me on that end. I respect your wisdom.

P.S. I intended to address your Steve Robbins response, but I am out of time now. In short, I think his longer point clarifies your contention. His point was that if those that started a church plant felt that the parent body could reach those that they were planted to reach with the greatest effectiveness, then they would be foolish to leave that church. Instead, most feel that there is a way to reach that group that could be best served in a separate context. That doesn’t mean they have a dissatisfaction that would lead them to leave, or stop loving the church. It just means that the call of God to go there is mashed in with the understanding that God wants to use them in a new way that another church might not be able to. I would hope, and so would Steve, that the church planting group would feel sadness and miss the parent body. I am dissatisfied to some degree with many things. That is the only thing that drives me to make them better, and usually it does not lead me to negativity, or a desire to run away.

When it comes to the word “ambition”, I have to admit I have little experience with it. It is one of those words I never hear people use much.

I would have to disagree with Steve Robbins again – I know of literally hundreds of churches that were planted because people felt led to and they actually were sad about leaving their original church – no dissatisfaction involved. Once again, this is my personal experience. I think many people think that since I didn’t grow up in church that I don’t have much experience with a diversity of churches. I have actually been to a wide range for churches in my short time in church, from AOG to Baptist to non-denominational to Luthern to all kinds. I also went through a missions training school for a year and a half that brought in people from hundreds of churches from all over the states to speak to us. Our church in Waco was also part of a loose association of churches from all over the world that work to sharpen one another. I also try to take my experience from the wider church as a whole, but that is a big task. Even if I could visit a different church every week, I would only get 52 a year, which is less than 1% of the churches in DFW alone. So I don’t really think anyone can speak for the church as a whole – we can only speak from our experience at best. In my range of experience, GVCF falls more on the traditional side of what I am used to.

But, anyways, seeing many young leaders and many church plants in that experience, when I see people that might even have a hint of dissatisfaction in their motives, it really stinks to me. But in most churches I have been to, especially the traditional churches, they have all been hungry for young leaders. I even remember talking to a Baptist pastor of mine who was asking me if I wanted to pastor a Baptist church at the ripe old age of 22. He was saying there were literally hundreds of small, country Baptist churches around that area (Waco) that were looking for young pastors to lead them. They would take any age according to him, but they apparently liked the new ideas that young pastors would bring in. And I have a lot of stories like that where young pastors were wanted and welcomed. And just as many stories of young leaders that struck out on their own and fell flat on their faces. When the church raises them up, they tend to strive for longer than if they get frustrated and leave on their own. I think God was serious when He told us to die to ourselves.

I agree with most of what you say in your response here. A lot of what you are talking about has to do with reasons that young adults start leading on their own, starting their own thing. I was more talking about the emergence of leadership in the Church in general. The reasons that your friends (in those couple cases you mentioned) were all reasons that they should have checked in their own spirit why they shouldn’t have done what they did, even if one of their ventures turned out quite successfully. All church plants come from some sort of place of dissatisfaction (according to Steve Robbins), but a Lone Ranger approach stemming from a sense of real rebellion is a really unhealthy reason.

I do feel that in many areas of the Church (probably more mainline, old guard denominations) that my statement is correct, although maybe you are right and that is not the norm entirely. I would certainly concede that it is not the norm (or more correctly, no longer the norm) in the Vineyard.

Umm…if that is the dictionary definition of “ambition” then I need to argue with Dan Webster. I commonly hear people say things like “My ambition is to cure AIDS,” or that kind of thing. The way I would use it would be a nuanced cross between goal, calling, passion, and determination. I’ll have to give that some though. I am always up for a schooling on word usage, but irregardless…

“In ancient Roman law, ambitus was a crime of political corruption, mainly a candidate’s attempt to influence the outcome of an election through bribery or other forms of soft power. The Latin word ambitus is the origin of the English word “ambition,” which is another of its original meanings; ambitus was the process of “going around and commending oneself or one’s proteges to the people,” an activity liable to unethical excesses.”

I wouldn’t call arrogance against the old a small problem. Bono himself actually talks a lot about it. Anyways, when I was in college, a certain friend approached me about starting a new church for college students. I knew that he had a bad attitude about anyone over 30, but usually just didn’t bring it up around him. His exact quote was that he wanted to start a Church that was free of “annoying older people.” I declined and really never spoke with him again, but he went on to start a really well known large church for young people, still going. I have gotten a chance to interact with many people that lead these kinds of churches, and frankly their attitudes all reek of arrogance against the old.

In other words, I have known people that have left the church to lead because they are arrogant and rude. And many that haven’t. I think it is wrong to say that it is either/or.

The only reason to do anything is because God leads you to, not because of what someone else doesn’t let you do. If God wants you to lead, you will. To make it happen on your own is arrogance. IF God has put someone in place that will let you lead, then it is time to die to self and wait for God to lead. IF they really felt they had a call from God, then where is also the spiritual gift of patience to wait on God to make it happen?

I remember once when I got frustrated with not being allowed to lead something. I asked God why I couldn’t just go forward. He responded this way: “in order for you to lead out in what you are called to do, I would have to remove 50% of the leaders of this church that just aren’t ready for it. I am working in their lives, but is your call to lead more important than my work in all of these other people’s lives? Do you think your calling is more important than 40 other people’s callings? If it is to you, then maybe you aren’t ready to lead yet. Leaders have to put others callings in front of their own.”

And that, right there, is the biggest problem I have with some of the people that are leaving churches to start their own work – they are putting their calling in front of all other things. God’s will is what is important, not our calling.

Most churches that I have been a part of have had mostly young leaders in them, so I can’t agree that “much of Christendom seems to think that any time that younger leaders want to lead that is inspired by some form of insipid disrespectful, ego lead, rebellious zeal that undermines the Church.” I have also been parts of churches that push young leaders to lead really, really fast. So fast, in fact, that I have already lost one friend to suicide. He claimed he couldn’t take the pressure of leading anymore. Very sad.

“For some reason, the Church is one of the few institutions where it is seen as somehow evil for young people to have ambition and a desire to lead.” I have never run in to that in the church. I am sure it exists somewhere in the church, but would highly disagree that you can hang that label around the entire church.

Ambition – an ardent desire for rank, fame, or power. I personally don’t think ambition is the correct word to use when describing Paul, King David, William Wilberforce, Martin Luther, etc. But that is just me.