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	<title>Comments on: What Makes a Good Church Web Ministry (Part 2)</title>
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	<link>http://ryanshinn.com/2009/04/09/what-makes-a-good-church-web-ministry-part-2/</link>
	<description>Let's blog about it!</description>
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		<title>By: admin</title>
		<link>http://ryanshinn.com/2009/04/09/what-makes-a-good-church-web-ministry-part-2/comment-page-1/#comment-34</link>
		<dc:creator>admin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Apr 2009 03:46:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ryanshinn.com/?p=126#comment-34</guid>
		<description>How can I get my hands on the stuff from that seminar?  Tell me of any upcoming that I could attend, if you can.  

What would you suggest I use instead of Techie? Code Monkey? Trekkie?  J/K.  I try to be sensitive to words, because sometimes they get loaded with meaning that is different than what I intend to communicate.  Suggest a different one, and maybe I&#039;ll adopt it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>How can I get my hands on the stuff from that seminar?  Tell me of any upcoming that I could attend, if you can.  </p>
<p>What would you suggest I use instead of Techie? Code Monkey? Trekkie?  J/K.  I try to be sensitive to words, because sometimes they get loaded with meaning that is different than what I intend to communicate.  Suggest a different one, and maybe I&#8217;ll adopt it.</p>
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		<title>By: Matt</title>
		<link>http://ryanshinn.com/2009/04/09/what-makes-a-good-church-web-ministry-part-2/comment-page-1/#comment-31</link>
		<dc:creator>Matt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Apr 2009 21:29:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ryanshinn.com/?p=126#comment-31</guid>
		<description>That does make sense.  My experience has been with just a few churches, all belonging to a particular family of churches that, while being great churches, aren&#039;t as good at delegating tasks beyond one person.  So, I think we are probably saying the same thing from different perspectives - basically, get more people involved.

There was a good seminar today at UTA that you might have found interesting: &quot;Learning 3.0: Noisy, Open, and Deep.&quot;  Pretty good stuff - I&#039;ll have to see if the speaker has resources online to check out.

Also, I need to watch my reactions to the word &quot;techie.&quot;  People in my field get lumped in with techies all the time, and we get a little tired of it.  The stereo-typical view of techies are still alive and well out there - those of us in the Ed Tech field are just usually different than that.  So disregard any knee-jerk reactions to that term :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That does make sense.  My experience has been with just a few churches, all belonging to a particular family of churches that, while being great churches, aren&#8217;t as good at delegating tasks beyond one person.  So, I think we are probably saying the same thing from different perspectives &#8211; basically, get more people involved.</p>
<p>There was a good seminar today at UTA that you might have found interesting: &#8220;Learning 3.0: Noisy, Open, and Deep.&#8221;  Pretty good stuff &#8211; I&#8217;ll have to see if the speaker has resources online to check out.</p>
<p>Also, I need to watch my reactions to the word &#8220;techie.&#8221;  People in my field get lumped in with techies all the time, and we get a little tired of it.  The stereo-typical view of techies are still alive and well out there &#8211; those of us in the Ed Tech field are just usually different than that.  So disregard any knee-jerk reactions to that term <img src='http://ryanshinn.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: admin</title>
		<link>http://ryanshinn.com/2009/04/09/what-makes-a-good-church-web-ministry-part-2/comment-page-1/#comment-29</link>
		<dc:creator>admin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Apr 2009 04:34:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ryanshinn.com/?p=126#comment-29</guid>
		<description>Thanks for the comment, Matt.  

You bring up something that I haven&#039;t thought much about.  I am very curious as to how many edu-geeks feel that way.  I apologize if my statement you quoted led you in a different direction than I was intending.  Let me zoom out a bit on that issue, and see if I can explain.

Of the hundreds of churches that I&#039;ve talked to regarding their web ministry, many tell me that they &quot;have a web guy in our church who does all of that.&quot;  In the course of the conversation what I find out is that most of these churches have leaned on this guy to the point that he can&#039;t handle it really well.  His own business takes his time, and he does what he can, but it never seems to be enough.  These are often the churches with really outdated stuff on their site.

My point was really aimed at pastors, for the most part.  I don&#039;t want to have them get the web ministry completely out of the hands of the edu-geeks at all.  They are a valuable part of the body.  But I do think that it is really a step in the right direction to free that person up from being the only one who can update anything.

A great example of this can be seen in my very own church.  At &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.gvcf.org&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Grace Vineyard&lt;/a&gt;, we have a website that can be updated by many members of the staff and leadership.  I have added things on the homepage quite a few times.  It also contains a complete social network.  We also rely on one of our edu-geeks (an incredible, awesome man of God) to keep many of the things updated.  Perhaps his skills aren&#039;t used to his fullest, but he does play an active role.  

Does that explanation make more sense?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for the comment, Matt.  </p>
<p>You bring up something that I haven&#8217;t thought much about.  I am very curious as to how many edu-geeks feel that way.  I apologize if my statement you quoted led you in a different direction than I was intending.  Let me zoom out a bit on that issue, and see if I can explain.</p>
<p>Of the hundreds of churches that I&#8217;ve talked to regarding their web ministry, many tell me that they &#8220;have a web guy in our church who does all of that.&#8221;  In the course of the conversation what I find out is that most of these churches have leaned on this guy to the point that he can&#8217;t handle it really well.  His own business takes his time, and he does what he can, but it never seems to be enough.  These are often the churches with really outdated stuff on their site.</p>
<p>My point was really aimed at pastors, for the most part.  I don&#8217;t want to have them get the web ministry completely out of the hands of the edu-geeks at all.  They are a valuable part of the body.  But I do think that it is really a step in the right direction to free that person up from being the only one who can update anything.</p>
<p>A great example of this can be seen in my very own church.  At <a href="http://www.gvcf.org" rel="nofollow">Grace Vineyard</a>, we have a website that can be updated by many members of the staff and leadership.  I have added things on the homepage quite a few times.  It also contains a complete social network.  We also rely on one of our edu-geeks (an incredible, awesome man of God) to keep many of the things updated.  Perhaps his skills aren&#8217;t used to his fullest, but he does play an active role.  </p>
<p>Does that explanation make more sense?</p>
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		<title>By: Matt</title>
		<link>http://ryanshinn.com/2009/04/09/what-makes-a-good-church-web-ministry-part-2/comment-page-1/#comment-26</link>
		<dc:creator>Matt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Apr 2009 03:24:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ryanshinn.com/?p=126#comment-26</guid>
		<description>&quot;Whatever you can do as a church to get your online ministry out of the hands of the techies in your church, and into the hands of the people of the church, the better.&quot;

Two things to say about this: 1) In many churches - the techies never get to touch anything. Someone gets the &quot;vision&quot; for a website, takes a few basic DreamWeaver lessons, and then builds a fortress around their badly designed and implemented &quot;ministry&quot; and never lets anyone else help, no matter how much they offer.  This is the complaint I hear from most techies - they never get to use their skills for their church.

2) I think you need to meet the modern version of techies called &quot;EduGeeks&quot;.  That is the field I work in.  They have to know the code AND the people skills to design effective online communities and courses.  In fact, a little bit of social learning theory usually fixes a ton of problems with online websites.  FaceBook is one of the ultimate examples of social learning theory snuck into people lives without them knowing it.  What you see as worthless quizzes are actually learning tools - people learn a massive amount of trivia from those things.  And they take them over and over again just to beat their friends.  Just think what you could do with some focused, intentional stuff like that designed to disciple people?  See www.edugeekjournal.com</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Whatever you can do as a church to get your online ministry out of the hands of the techies in your church, and into the hands of the people of the church, the better.&#8221;</p>
<p>Two things to say about this: 1) In many churches &#8211; the techies never get to touch anything. Someone gets the &#8220;vision&#8221; for a website, takes a few basic DreamWeaver lessons, and then builds a fortress around their badly designed and implemented &#8220;ministry&#8221; and never lets anyone else help, no matter how much they offer.  This is the complaint I hear from most techies &#8211; they never get to use their skills for their church.</p>
<p>2) I think you need to meet the modern version of techies called &#8220;EduGeeks&#8221;.  That is the field I work in.  They have to know the code AND the people skills to design effective online communities and courses.  In fact, a little bit of social learning theory usually fixes a ton of problems with online websites.  FaceBook is one of the ultimate examples of social learning theory snuck into people lives without them knowing it.  What you see as worthless quizzes are actually learning tools &#8211; people learn a massive amount of trivia from those things.  And they take them over and over again just to beat their friends.  Just think what you could do with some focused, intentional stuff like that designed to disciple people?  See <a href="http://www.edugeekjournal.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.edugeekjournal.com</a></p>
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		<title>By: What Makes a Good Church Web Ministry (Part 1) @ Come on in</title>
		<link>http://ryanshinn.com/2009/04/09/what-makes-a-good-church-web-ministry-part-2/comment-page-1/#comment-22</link>
		<dc:creator>What Makes a Good Church Web Ministry (Part 1) @ Come on in</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Apr 2009 19:19:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ryanshinn.com/?p=126#comment-22</guid>
		<description>[...] Check out Part 2 [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Check out Part 2 [...]</p>
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